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By | Saturday, June 12, 2010 | 2:41 am | 30 Comments | Blog > Features

The Dark Underbelly of the DCU

Lately, there’s been a lot of news and discussion about the DC rooted titles that make up what I’ve always thought of as the “Vertigo Universe.” Here’s an article about DC Main reclaiming Swamp Thing (and other DCU originating concepts, possibly even one of my personal favorites, The Books Of Magic star Tim Hunter.) This spouted lots of conversation on forums, with some people scared that the Vertigo titles would lose their charm (long running Hellblazer, in particular) and others excited that many new stories could be told that previously weren’t possible. Here’s one such thread over at the CBR forums.

Swampy Is Coming Home

Personally, I’m in that second camp. My absolute favorite stories from Swamp Thing involve his interactions with DCU characters. The crossover with Batman in Gotham is amazing. Likewise, his Superman crossover (the one by Moore, not the one with Solomon Grundy pictured) is really something.

Madame Xanadu, a currently running Vertigo title, is already firmly rooted in the DCU – the stories are love poems to the rich history of DC’s magical and strange universe.

I personally think that the editorial separation of some titles was a mistake. Swamp Thing hasn’t exactly flourished outside of the rest of the DC Universe. While Constantine has maintained a steady run in Hellblazer, no one has been able to use him for a cameo – even when his particular brand of snark could have added a lot to many magical DC events. No one says the tights and capes have to show up in his titles – there are plenty of DCU titles that don’t feature superheroes all the time – but just because he disdains them doesn’t mean their interactions wouldn’t be entertaining.

True, a book like Lucifer, although a sequel to Gaiman’s Sandman, doesn’t really need the DCU to function and reads just fine on its own. However, it’s packed with easter eggs for the DC fan who is paying attention – and this move could free up many of the awesome characters created for that book to be used in relevant story arcs. I’m not concerned about contradictions with DCU mythology – I think it’s been made abundantly clear that DC has room for a flowing canvas of deities and magical systems. Lucifer has even made appearances in DC titles like The Demon.

Does it make sense that The Demon is a DCU character but Lucifer isn’t? Not in this age of comics for mature readers. A book can have a warning on its cover and still be part of the DC imprint. There are a lot of titles currently running that deal with themes more intense than the average Vertigo book from ten years back.

And finally, I think Vertigo will be just fine without their DC rooted books. It’s been kind of confusing for consumers that some Vertigo books interacted inside this strange DC mix while others were totally separate. Vertigo has established itself as a purveyor of fine creator owned and self contained content. It’s received critical acclaim and good sales (especially on the collected editions) with titles like Fables, Transmetropolitan, The Invisibles, Y: The Last Man, etc. I think that’s the direction it should continue to go in. Wildstorm has become almost as convoluted and continuity heavy as the main DCU – Vertigo can continue to be the place for content that can be picked up at book one and read straight through.

What’s The Verdict?

Anyway, that’s my take on it. Since characters like Swamp Thing, Tim Hunter, Cain and Abel, and hopefully even the Endless, will soon be showing up in more books – I think all of their adventures should be folded in. I’ve read almost every DC rooted Vertigo book and I can’t think of any that have more contradictions than your average DC Bullet marked title.

However, I want to see what you think. After answering the poll, feel free to elaborate on your thoughts in the comments!

Should all Vertigo Universe releases be integrated into the main DCU reading order?

View Results

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By | Friday, June 11, 2010 | 3:20 am | 0 Comments | Blog > Database Updates

The following books are now properly placed on the RRO:

The Golden Age Hawkman Archives Vol. 1

Superman Archives Vol. 3

The Shazam! Archives Vol. 3

The Golden Age Flash Archives Vol. 2

The Shazam! Archives Vol. 4

Batman: The Dark Knight Archives Vol. 2

The JSA All Stars Archives Vol. 1

The Golden Age Green Lantern Archives Vol. 2

All Star Comics Archives Vol. 2

Superman Archives Vol. 4

The Golden Age Starman Archives Vol. 1

Superman: The Action Comics Archives Vol. 3

Batman: The Dark Knight Archives Vol. 3

The Seven Soldiers of Victory Archives Vol. 1

The Shazam! Family Archives Vol. 1

Wonder Woman Archives Vol. 1

Batman Archives Vol. 2

Wow, busy couple years! You really get an appreciation for what the Golden Age was all about by looking over the contents of the DC Archives. It’s like a hero explosion.

http://www.tradereadingorder.com/dc-comics-universe/batman-the-dark-knight-archives-vol-3/
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By | Thursday, June 10, 2010 | 8:20 pm | 6 Comments | Blog > Database Updates

Since I’m so intimately acquainted with the past releases of DC at this point, it’s always extremely exciting when I find a collected edition I hadn’t known about. Today I came across The Shadow: Blood and Judgment when researching a misprint on my Doc Savage: The Silver Pyramid volume (I made a comment about it on the book, and there’s also a discussion thread on CBR if you wanna chat about your experiences with misprints.). I’ll be adding that one into the database and the reading order soon.

I’ve also got a few more titles in my “add to database” to do list -  ranging from the Batman Manga style releases to Sgt. Rock’s digest release. I feel like I’m really scraping the edge now – it’s pretty amazing. So many of the tiles that I’ve found recently don’t seem to be listed anywhere except for the odd spot to buy them from. It’s like finding treasure when I find an unknown book with the DC Bullet on it.

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By | Thursday, June 10, 2010 | 6:14 am | 0 Comments | Blog > Database Updates

The links to the blog categories have been fixed so pagination works correctly.

The old sidebar links simply pointed to the wrong place.

For example, if you’re viewing the blog at http://www.tradereadingorder.com/blog/, then http://www.tradereadingorder.com/blog/page/2/ will NOT work. This is a quirk with wordpress and I haven’t been able to figure out a workaround yet.

However, the proper category context DOES work, IE, http://www.tradereadingorder.com/list/blog/page/2/ or http://www.tradereadingorder.com/list/blog/updates/page/2/

So if you’re running into a weird problem, try one of those different urls and hopefully it will help you out!

I also added in entry counts for the blog categories, so you can easily see how many updates we’ve done so far, and so on.

Then I updated the error page/text while I was at it, so if you do end up at a page with no content, you’ll see a little more helpful information.

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By | Wednesday, June 9, 2010 | 3:28 pm | 0 Comments | Blog > Interviews

It’s time for another installment of Tough Questions With Alex J. The last sets of questions can be found here, here and here.

Alex J: Here’s another question for you: for the purists out there, would you ever consider making a list which removes all non-canon or no longer canon titles?

TPBro: It would be kind of a pain to keep up to date, lol, but technically it would be easy to accomplish – just add each book that is “in” to the category “Currently Canon” or something.

Alex J: I got a note from Multiversity, a major comic blog, saying they have a weekly feature about recommended reading orders for characters, and regarding your endeavor, they expressed doubt that one man could successfully categorize all of them sequentially as there will always be paperbacks you don’t know about. What do you say to that?

TPBro: haha, it’s an ongoing project – but obviously I’ve already got some help.

As for DC paperbacks I don’t know about, they’re pretty rare at this point. I’ve been researching this for a couple years, and it’s really not that hard at thing to track down, considering the relatively small publication history of the trade paperback comic collection in general and the relatively obsessive nature of the comic fan.

As for future stuff, it’s easy to stay abreast of upcoming solicitations for the major publications at least, and I’ve got a list of about 5 left that I know about that currently aren’t in my database at all for DC.

Now, if we were talking about EVERY trade ever – I’m not really worried about keeping a COMPLETE database. If it’s an important title, chances are it will make its way in. If it’s not, things will be as complete as they can be.

It’s the process that’s fun, and it gets more useful every day.

I guess really my primary goal is to make a reading order for DC trades. Everything else will come if that works out – and, possibly, if it works out well enough to somehow support itself in such a way that I’d be given more time to work on everything else. Right now I’m putting in full time hours out of passion, but I can’t do that forever – especially if I’m starting a family in a few years, haha.

Probably what will happen, is that I’ll continue putting in full time hours in my ‘spare’ time for this first year just to get the basics of the site fully functional and the DC list fully populated with covers, tags, and so on. Then everything else will be added slowly and organically over time. But I wanna get that DC list out there – that’s my primary goal.

Alex J: What have you learned from compiling the DC Trade Order that you can apply to compiling Marvel? And what are bound to be some of the biggest differences?

TPBro: I think the biggest thing I’ve realized is that I should add as MUCH info as possible and as MANY books as possible BEFORE uploading the offline document. I can upload an entire reading order in order, but adding in more books is a pain and organizing books after they are in the database is a pain.

When I uploaded the DC Order, I purposefully did it before I’d added in the archives, figuring it was already going to be useful to people and I could just add them in later after it was up. Huge mistake! It’s created hours and hours of more work for me. Moving and ordering 200 books can be done in a night in my offline document, but takes a lot more time online, for example. I’d been doing 5 or 10 a day, until I managed to seriously tweak how the site was working to make things a little faster.

Second, I should have ALL my fields except the one that’s impossible (picture of cover) filled out in my text based database before uploading. I can’t do tags or custom taxonomies (which means no series, marvel character, creator, and so on) but I CAN do ISBN, Page count, publisher, publication date, contents’ publication date and so on. There’s no reason that info shouldn’t be in the database BEFORE I upload.

But I didn’t learn that till long after the site was up. But moving forward, it’s going to make my life a lot easier for Marvel. I’ll compile the whole thing offline, then just have to go through and copy/paste stuff from custom fields to custom taxonomies, plus add pictures.

There shouldn’t be too many differences. There probably won’t be so MANY category lists – no split crisis reading order, no pre-crisis, no post-crisis. There will probably just be a recommended reading order (which might shift some books around based on event crossovers, etc) and chronological, plus the ages – golden through modern, though I’m not sure how clear the divide is in Marvel.

Marvel will have its own set of event/series lists, like “What If?” instead of “Elseworlds” and “Secret Wars,” etc. It will also have a distinctly separate character tagging database, since some characters have the same names, etc.

I will probably have to copy book entries that are in both universes (DC Marvel crossovers) in order to have them place properly.

That’s all I can think of…

And that’s it for now! Remember, if you have questions that aren’t answered on the How To Use This Website page, feel free to leave a comment on the Feedback page or Email Me, just like Alex did!


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