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Here are some more updated placements stemming from conversation with Daniel.

First, Superman: For Tomorrow has been moved from in front of In The Name of Gog to after That Healing Touch (as can be seen on Page 28 of the RRO)

You can view conversation on the book for more details.

Next up, through some discussion we managed to find a new place for the Original Graphic Novel, Lex Luthor: Man Of Steel. It now comes right after Superman: Kryptonite on Page 3 of the RRO. Nope still looking for a place.

Also, I’ve added That Healing Touch to the Identity Crisis list.

Now, if you don’t mind, I think I might actually settle down for a little and read a comic. I’ll let you know if the placement for LL: MOS needs to be tweaked again after I finish it :)

Edit: ok, it needs to be moved, but I’m not sure where to yet. Very odd book. More after I finish it. Discussion in the comments here – spoiler warnings (just for this book).

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20 Comments Post New »

  1. avatar Daniel Davis wrote on at May 31, 2010 2:25 am:

    So what did you find to throw off our placement?

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:28 am:

    Ok – it needs to be moved but I’m not sure where to yet. There are two things that are making it hard:

    1. At the start, a clearly grown women remarks that Superman has been around since she was a girl. It’s hard to see how this is possible almost anywhere on the timeline. Points towards the book being later.

    2. When was lex’s spire built? Is this the L shaped one? or something totally different. Again, not sure what is going on with that. Points to the book being earlier?

    3. Definitely an early book based on batman superman interaction. They don’t fight like this very often. Very hard to tell exactly where we are at without dialogue. Points to the book being earlier.

    4. Newscaster makes reference to the Justice League (and it being large?) – points towards book being much later!

    5. Toyman – when did he premier? 1943 and then again in 1988 as post crisis? I guess we can ignore this.

    That’s it so far, I’m not done yet.

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:37 am:

    Ok, just finished. Forget about the tower, obviously.

    Besides that, what are your thoughts?

    I feel like the thing with Hope oddly mirrors Lex’s relationship with Matrix/Supergirl, but a lot more graphically sexual. The book in general is more graphic though.

    Either way, I’m not sure if that means it should be placed long before supergirl… man this is tough. It seems like it’s basically an out of continuity tale and there isn’t really anywhere it would work perfectly. The hardest kind of book to place.

    If we took out a couple lines of dialogue, it would be great in its current location…

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:38 am:

    Also, hope is kind of a reoccurring character but I have no idea how. I don’t remember.

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:40 am:

    ah, ok, http://www.comicbookdb.com/character.php?ID=114 the CBDB has this entry for hope mixed up with Hope Taya, who is a totally different character, I think.

    [Reply]

    avatar Daniel Davis replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:52 am:

    Yeah, it definitely seems they’re combining characters there.

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:43 am:

    ok, last continuity note – Elias Orr also shows up in several places around 2005, I think, by online research. I wonder if he seems the same in For Tomorrow as he does in this book?

    [Reply]

  2. avatar Daniel Davis wrote on at May 31, 2010 2:50 am:

    Yeah, the Elias Orr thing threw me off because of him showing up in For Tomorrow also. But the fact is that in the 2005 continuity, Lex Luthor isn’t in the position to do any of the things he does in this book. I think this book *has* to be at least prior to 2000. (I’ll get more specific if you want — staying vague for now.)

    The main reason I thought it had to be much earlier was the way S reacted to B having Kryptonite. Seems like that interaction would have had to occurred before S gave Bruce the Kryptonite ring.

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:52 am:

    Yeah, it would have to. Everything I’ve found online has people calling the book “out of continuity” – which is probably true – but I wonder if we still can’t find a good reading spot for it.

    I’m gonna do a little digging and shuffling on my bookshelf – let me know if you come up with any ideas.

    [Reply]

    avatar Daniel Davis replied on May 31st, 2010 at 2:56 am:

    Will do. Strange little book, but I loved the artwork.

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 3:04 am:

    A quick flip through For Tomorrow – it seems that Orr is much older in that book. Seeing as it was written by the same person, I’d say that’s a fair hint that Man Of Steel takes place much earlier.

    The only thing really messing it up is the superman/batman interaction, I think.

    It’s just so crazy violent. I guess superheroes have misunderstandings and fight all the time, but the art makes it seem so intense. It’s just hard to put it close to any of the other superman batman books on the shelves, because frankly they seem to be such good pals just a couple books down in any direction.

    Another thought – The case the kryptonite is in looks almost exactly like the one Lex picks up/has at the end of Kryptonite. It feels like the only direct link. Maybe Superman: Kryptonite should be moved to after the JLA premiers and then LLMOS could co with it.

    Since the Bat/Supes thing is crazy, and the “superman being around since I was a kid” thing is crazy, I feel like I have to go by some of the other indicators, and the Justice League one is the only one that seems too obvious to ignore.

    I guess the easy route would be to just place it back where it was and just mark it as out of continuity, and put it with the elseworlds, haha

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 3:16 am:

    ugh all this just made me realize that kryptonite shows up in birthright as well. After a little consideration, I’m going to move Kryptonite before birthright. and maybe both of them close to man of steel.

    You were right about superman being the most annoying!

    it would be great to put this book right next to them but that justice league reference is so darn blatant.

    [Reply]

  3. avatar Daniel Davis wrote on at May 31, 2010 3:17 am:

    Yeah, I think the bottom line is that the author didn’t make any effort to make it line up with Superman continuity. But here’s a couple of things —

    First, the TV interviewer just says Justice League — so that could just as easily refer to the Maxwell Lord era JL/JLI. Which would have been contemporary with the Man of Steel books…

    Second, Lex makes an off-hand comment about how he might think about buying the Daily Planet one day — which places this story as before he did…

    Other than that, it’s looking obnoxious — it can’t realistically happen after 1998, and the “little girl” comment and Superman/Batman fight give completely contradictory info about how much older than that it is…

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 3:20 am:

    Yeah, honestly, it’s looking like what I really have to do is move the Man of Steel trade.

    I really liked having it where it was because it was a great first meeting between superman and batman, but you’re right that it’s basically a post CoIE reboot.

    lol, maybe she was a little girl on earth 2 but now they’re on the combined earth. agghhhahahsgh lol

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 3:23 am:

    the other book I have there is Trinity, where, all of a sudden, they’re reasonably good buds and he’s helping clark protect the kryptonite.

    Honestly though, that trinity book is such a huge pile of continuity mess that I really don’t care about that one.

    My new idea is to move Birthright and Kryptonite together where birthright is now (before batman) and then move MOS V 1 right after crisis and this book right after it.

    [Reply]

  4. avatar Daniel Davis wrote on at May 31, 2010 3:34 am:

    Well, here’s an alternative suggestion…I said before that this should come before the first appearance of Metallo, but I think it should be after, on second thought — at least where post-crisis continuity is concerned.

    So in MOS v.2 Lex builds Metallo, and it’s only then that he discovers the effect that Kryptonite has — so what if you leave Birthright where it is, but move Kryptonite to right after MOS v.2 and then place this one right after. It still has a little bit of an issue where the “little girl” comment is concerned — but at least then it maps on to a reasonable continuity where kryptonite is concerned. It would also be at the time when the JLI was getting off the ground, so that comment could fit as well.

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 3:49 am:

    nah, it doesn’t work – Kryptonite brings in a whole alternative origin for the rock that has nothing to do with post crisis continuity as far as I can tell..

    then again, lois has black hair, superman has superman robots, and even though it’s all high tech it kind of feels like the 40s. honestly, it’s basically a pre-crisis tale. So I’m fine with it being pre-crisis.

    I’m definitely moving it to before birthright.

    buuuut, I just skimmed MOS V 2 and you’re right that luthor has no idea what kryptonite is when he grabs it from metallo. Since LL MOS doesn’t make any mention of where he got the kryptonite, we can call it from here!

    I’m satisfied with that. It allows me to leave the supes/batman meeting where it was, anyway. And I really do like MOS V. 1 a lot earlier, I mean, lex had hair there and everything. It’s not meant to be so close to the other volumes. I think. Man, reading/skimming so many of these conflicting books in one night is driving me a little crazy.

    [Reply]

    avatar Daniel Davis replied on May 31st, 2010 at 3:53 am:

    phew! at least we found a place where it kinda/sorta works. And I think we can just say of the whole “little girl” comment — “Zero Hour did it!” lol

    Well, that was fun — even if a little headache inducing.

    [Reply]

    avatar Ian replied on May 31st, 2010 at 4:01 am:

    yup. Obviously ripples from the crisis (just like lex’s crazy weight fluctuation)

    That was intense! I was gonna write a review of this book, too, but it will have to wait till tomorrow now, haha.

    [Reply]

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